<teratorn> as a general rule, you should never associate popularity with correctness
%
<dopey> fd0: what in particular about the environment is significant ?
<fd0> dopey: some env-variables
%
<blanu> glyph: Itamar says I need a shell account on pyramid. I forgot why.
<glyph> blanu: You do! For cabal research.
<glyph> I MEAN CVS ACCESS NOT cabal research there are no blood sacrifices
<blanu> Yes, yes exactly.
* Acapnotic puts magnetic blood boy back in the closet.
%
<PenguinOfDoom> Bah.
<PenguinOfDoom> People still say "Linux Redhat 8"?
<PenguinOfDoom> It's "Linux version 8", damnit.
%
* itamar wonders if the phrase "evil spawned in dark aeons beyond the ken of man" should go in a price proposal for a project
<moshez> depends.
<moshez> if it's a proposal to Satan, yes.
<moshez> also, how much would it cost?
<moshez> is it, like, a big chunk of the price?
<moshez> if so, possibly a more expansive description is in order.
<moshez> like, where exactly the evil was spawned.
%
<moshez> "Hi, we use bit arithmetic on doubles, becuase we're really
         stupid. We deserve what we get for programming Perl. Do you
         have a position for us FLIPPING BURGERS?"
%
<radix> where the heck did caps-day come from, anyway?
<JDAHLIN> It's something we often celebrate here in South America
<JDAHLIN> Very traditional.
%
<radix> man
<radix> I'm getting drinker's-elbows
%
* moshez sees the orbital lasers adjusting
* ameoba puts on a _REALLY_ shiny tinfoil hat
<moshez> ameoba: I'm afraid that's another myth
<moshez> the tinfoil hats actually help us aim the lasers
<dash> ameoba: they suppressed the laser-dispelling tinfoil in 1953
%
"Perl is like a normal chainsaw, but it's inflammable."
    -- Prior-Art-O-Matic (http://thesurrealist.co.uk/priorart.cgi?ref=Perl)
%
<ameoba> READ THE FAQ@!#@   THAT"S NOT A MINIMAL EXAMPLERING@#
%
<rc> Yosomono: I was only kidding when I said, "Fuck you."
<Yosomono> rc: Dude. Water. Bridge. Beneathage.
%
<Pahan> demoscene? Isn't that some Greek philosopher?
%
<glyph> I'm at MIT.  I'm walking down the infinite corridor, and towards the 
end they have a small lab, which looks strangely like the MJ12 Level 2 labs 
in DX.  In the lab are a bunch of display screens.
<glyph> The lab has a placard next to it that says "nanotechnology center"
<glyph> Soon as I look up at the monitor, it switches to a slide that says 
"nano-indentation".
<glyph> I'm not kidding.
<glyph> they are engineering the whitespace eating nanovirus _right here_
%
<exarkun> this server rebooted, now freshcvs is raising exceptions, the webserver doesn't run, and mailman's permission
wrapper refuses to acknowledge setuid bits
<exarkun> It's enough to make a guy buy a rifle and start shooting people.
<glyph> exarkun: what kind of rifle
%
<jml> anyway, wasn't bruce_ writing a C implementation of spread?
* jml decides to write a C++ one just to piss dash off
<dash> jml: that wouldn't piss me off
<dash> jml: that's like trying to annoy an eye surgeon by stabbing yourself in
       the face with a pencil
%
<exarkun> ThreeSeas: Thanks for playing.  BTW, I whipped up an autocoder last night, but it went on strike.. said it wanted a better contract.
%
<pht> hi, does python do threads?
<MoonFallen> we need a dash hand-puppet to answer this question when he's not around
%
<ameoba> WHO WAS GENERAL TSO AND WHY ARE WE EATING HIS CHICKEN?
<dash> ameoba: because it is SPICY.
%
<jml> C++ templates, a bad idea ruined by bad implementation.
%
<glyph> IT IS BECAUSE I AM A GENIUS!!
%
<mindlace> so g-d parses xhtml. Mysterious ways, I guess.
<radix> no, microdom parsers xhtml
<radix> g-d munges it :)
%
<Mifune> that is one benefit of being "god" on this project... I am my own clusterfuck
%
[this conversation took place at 7:16 AM, and both participants knew they had
 clearly been awake for the previous 12 hours or so... -ed]
<glyph> So, your schedule in space again too?
<dash> schedule?
<dash> my _brain_ is in space
%
<radix> mozilla runs on macosx, right?
<glyph> radix: yes.
<glyph> radix: but it's slooooooowwwwww
<fzZzy> It's not too bad on my 933 with 1.25 gb of ram
%
<xyld> Java is like being naked, covered in vaseline and beaten with sticks -- I respect that some people like that kind of thing, but I'll pass :)
%
<jml> quoth the _moshez: Here is .lore
%
<fzZzy> pyn: suck it 
<pyn> An error occurred: 
<pyn> suck 
%
<blanu> When I mentioned Twisted, Guido said it had been suffering from the
    problem where you look at it and you can't tell what it is, but that he
    thinks that has gotten much better lately. I then told him much praise for
    the responsiveness and hardcore attitude of the Twisted developers.
<radix> HARDCORE YO
 * radix headbangs
 * radix goes to wash dishes
%
<ry> twisted_ (twisted@krs-dhcp351.studby.uio.no) joined on efnet
<Erwin> It's become SENTIENT!
%
[discussing Woven... -ed]
<glyph> dmerrill: We're still working out the best way to approach this philosophpically ;)
<spiv> "philoso*php*ically"?
<glyph> spiv: that was the weirdest freudian slip of my life
%
<datazone> play that funky music dash boy
* dash is playing that funky music right.
%
<ameoba> radix: I think "+q? :)" is an ETC macro...
<ameoba> radix: it's used alot in quantum computing.
<ameoba> "try all values, destroy universe if false"
<ameoba> useful for that O(1) execution speed, unfortunately, it could be REALLY BAD if your evaluation function's buggy
%
<cluster> hehe I haven't had a decent night of sleep since I discovered twisted :)
%
<z3p> itamar: you can /never/ have too many monkeys
%
<moshez> jafo: going to give a talk today.
<moshez> jafo: "Smooth Structure of Orbifolds"
<dash> moshez: if i ever write an RPG, i'm going to make one of the monsters be an orbifold
<dash> "The orbifold hits! The orbifold hits! You die..."
%
<radix> A Sparrow claws your face right off!
<radix> You are dead!  Sorry...
<radix> [Info] Radix has been slain by A Sparrow!!
<radix> The gods have mercy on your inexperienced soul.
<radix> <1hp 103m 86mv>
<radix> 1hp!
<radix> no restore!
%
<red_one> sayke: what would happen if everyone voted consciencously?
<sayke> red_one: what would happen if everyone beat their swords into plowshares?
<dash> sayke: PLOWSHARE FIGHT
%
* vegai wears his reading bra.
<vegai> umm, I mean glasses
%
(searching for "god" on Google returns http://phpnuke.org)
<itamar> something is screwed up with google...
<LotR> itamar: no, that's god's little joke on google
%
<datazone> but the real question is: "do you get to beat victims to death with a steal dildo while wearing a bugs bunny outfit?"
%
<exarkun> I'm gonna preempt them by mailing the list and asking what people think is wrong with it
<Acapnotic> exarkun: will you make that a multiple choice question?
<exarkun> Acapnotic: YES!  A) IT IS TOO GOOD  B) IT IS TOO GOOD  C) EXARKUN IS TOO SEXY, I WANT TO HAVE HIS CHILDREN  D) ALL OF THE ABOVE
<Acapnotic> > Dear exarkum, i would like very much to use ur smtp client programme but you are too sexy and i want to have many children by you.  only problem is that i am currently a man and it will take time to change for you.
<Acapnotic> > I will understand if you do not wait for me, but i will look forward to the times we are together
%
<moshez> spiv: what's the date there?
<spiv> moshez: Oct 2.
<spiv> Admittedly we're in daylight savings, but we're also not right on the international date line :)
<moshez> maybe Nov 2...
<spiv> Er, Nov 2, yeah :)
* spiv tries to act innocent, like he doesn't have a time machine
%
<radix> glyph needs more friends that can break into his house
%
<moshez> itamar: when they have an action figure of me, it will come with a squishing action
%
<itamar> so it's, kinda, "heh-inducing episodes occured in conjunction with
         your girlfriend"
%
<jml> dash: well, I might have done something really stupid. Like embed perl code into the example by accident.
<dash> jml: well, there's stupidity, and willful stupidity
<jml> dash: and then there's university
%
<sjj> hah, they've introduced Vanilla Coke down there as well, eh? ;)
<jml> sjj: yeah, we're really up to do. Soon, a real "burger chain"
from the United States is gonna come here. They call themselves,
Mac-something-or-other. :)
%
<glyph> that's AWESOME
<itamar> wasn't it your idea?
<glyph> itamar: If it was, I'm a genius
%
<Kengur> why cant python b compiled to native bitecode?
<Erwin> Python IS compiled to bitecode on the Transmeta Muffin
<inapt> what's native bitecode?
<inapt> a sekrit language of snakes?
%
<icepick> go vote!
<arma> for the shmuck, or the other shmuck?
%
<jml> dash: given the number of places you can stick const, "where the sun don't shine" is probably the best
 -- jml explains good C++ style
%
<itamar> kill him
<itamar> before he reproduces
<anonymous> itamar: slightly more tact is called for
<exarkun> Tact won't solve any problems an aluminum baseball bat won't solve faster.
<anonymous> can't get to him - no budget money for ticket
<anonymous> any excess budget money will go toward lucky professor #0 getting whacked.
<anonymous> I got in trouble, because the first draft of the budget had the official "slop" line item marked as "Dr XXXXXXX hitman fund."
<anonymous> noone disagreed, mind you - they just didn't want it officially in the budget.
%
<Cheez> OMG, the economy is so bad that people are willing to work in tennessee??!?
%
<jafo> I finally got through the Internet, but the end guy is REALLY hard.
%
<bram> http://advogato.org/person/Bram/diary.html?start=40
<raph> if i were to click that link, it would: pop up a progress window; print cryptic messages about launching konq to stdout; make the kirc window small and unresponsive; and crash the gnome panel
%
<moshez> glyph: do you think programming requires thinking?
<glyph> moshez: No!  That is why we can automate it with robot monkeys, and we programmers must fight to earn our meager living while we are being crowded out by machines.
%
<saph> i'd rather have a non-robot monkey, for they are squishier and have hair
%
<drue> fermats last theorem is very simple, it's the proof that's a bugbear
<raph> actually, i have a simple proof, but it's too small for me to type into irc
%
<exarkun> INEFFICIENT CAPITALIST YOUR OPULENT TOILET WILL BE YOUR UNDOING
%
<dash> it's quicker to ask python than us :)
<MoonFallen> dash speaks words of wisdom
<MoonFallen> it is quicker
<MoonFallen> it's not always useful, though
<MoonFallen> for example, last week i wanted to know a good brand of barbecue sauce. i tried asking python
<MoonFallen> it quickly gave me my answer: SyntaxError
<dash> MoonFallen: we dont buy any other brand
<MoonFallen> i knew i should have looked for it at Whole Foods instead
%
<jml> <saph> it is easy to get a date
<jml> <jml> saph: that's easy for you to say
<jml> <saph> you just have to be brave and have little or no standards
* jml fucks his clipboard
%
<Tenshihan> if I had a binary number 1001001 and I wanted to count the
number of 1's in it... and the only math function I have is add, should
I shoot my professor?
%
<MoonFallen> or maybe just pay his army to surrender. it would cost less than
shipping 250,000 troops over there, i'll bet you.
<MoonFallen> the oil companies would probably chip in too
<MoonFallen> we could get everyone involved. like sponsoring a starving child
in africa. except you're sponsoring an iraqi to surrender
<MoonFallen> i wonder if we could get them to write their sponsors letters. 
"thank you for not blowing me up. thanks to your generous donation of 1 million
dollars, instead of being dead, i am now an oil magnate in my native country."
%
<datazone> you're a towel
<exarkun> a towel of IMMENSE POWER, yes.
%
<moshez> wow
<moshez> I don't see how people didn't think of this before
<moshez> if you're in competition with some windows user, just report him to the bsa
%
<jml> damn you all. damn you and your witty repartee and your elegant bloody framework. I'm going to sleep.
%
<jml> here I am, brain the size of a planet, and they make me do XML
%
* glyph thinks x++ should have been named "<xml type="programming">
    <increment /> <increment> </xml>"
%
<raph> i was going to publish a spec for bitmap images much along similar lines as BLOAT
<raph> ie, <pixel><color><component name="red" value="34"/> ...
<raph> now here is the evil thought
<raph> do up an XLST stylesheet to render it as a huge html table with cell backgrounds for each pixel
<raph> so you can view it in mozilla
%
<aum> dash: do we have a 'non-profanity' chan policy here?
<dash> aum: we have a "not acting lame" policy
%
* spiv wishes he never has to see another meta-argument
<moshez> spiv: meta-arguments are fun!
<spiv> moshez: The first time perhaps.  They're always the same, though.  It gets tiresome.
<glyph> spiv: you're having a meta-meta argument now
<spiv> glyph: My life is pain :)
<moshez> glyph: I was afraid of having to point this out to spiv myself
<dash> moshez: it wasn't an argument 'til you spoke up :)
<moshez> dash: but he *answered*
<glyph> aaaaaaaaa
<glyph> METAMETAMETA ARGUMENT
<jml> glyph: not it's not
--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to glyph
<-- glyph has kicked jml from #twisted (IT IS NOT AN ARGUMENT IF I HAVE A GUN)
<exarkun> +1 (Insightful)
%
<dash> bruce: oh. intellectual dishonesty doesn't bother me when it comes to getting k5 to post our propaganda.
<moshez> dash: intellectual dishonesty doesn't bother me when it comes to brainwashing and taking over the world
<dash> moshez: That's what I said.
%
<MoonFallen> i'm looking at a perl program called tedia2sql
<MoonFallen> the author seems pretty competent, judging by the quality of the program, but it takes him almost 300 lines what t.p.usage would allow me to do in 50
<MoonFallen> and i'm not that good
<glyph> MoonFallen: yes, but I'm *amazing*, and I wrote t.p.usage ;-D
<MoonFallen> well shit, no wonder
<glyph> and it's been hacked on by people smarter than me, since then.
<MoonFallen> incidentally, who do you consider smarter than you? i need to hire those people or keep away from them
%
<MoonFallen> lol. it's nice when someone starts out a post like this: " Basically, the entire structure of your argument centers around the assumption that it's bad to have bugs in your program."
<MoonFallen> then i know i can skip the rest of the post
%
<bram> I just got a call from a mechanical voice which said 'I'm sorry, I dialed your number in error'
%
Grocible says, "this programming job on another site demands "courage, commitment and loyalty""
Grocible says, "Courage commitment and fucking loyalty?!"
Grocible asks, "is this an ad for a knight's assistant circa 1450?"
Grocible asks, "what were they called? Pages?"
Nate says, "So that's what Active Server Pages are."
%
<liiwi> _pattern = re.compile('^(?P<client>[^ ]+) (?P<ident>[^ ]+) (?P<authuser>[^\[\n]+) \[(?P<mday>[0-9]+)\/(?P<mon_name>\w+)\/(?P<ye\
<liiwi> ar>[0-9]+):(?P<hour>[0-9]+):(?P<min>[0-9]+):(?P<sec>[0-9]+) (?P<timediff>[^ ]+)\] "(?P<method>(GET|HEAD|PUT|POST|TRACE|DELETE|O\
<liiwi> PTIONS|-))( (?P<url>.*) (?P<proto>[^ ].*))" (?P<status>.*) (?P<bytes>.*) "(?P<refer>.*)" "(?P<agent>[^"]+)"(($)|( (?P<stime>[^ \
<liiwi> ]+) (?P<vhost>[^ ]+).*$))')
<radix> BURN IN HELL
%
<radix> somebody dressed in a chicken suit came out during the concert and attacked them
<radix> and they beat the crap out of it
%
<rc> I don't find transclusive folding to be that useful a programming
language feature.
<faassen> rc: well, it's an acquired taste.
%
<Stravad> Python has that instance id thingy for everything
<glyph> Stravad: uh, that's not an OID, that's &foo; :-)
<radix> glyph: !?
<dash> radix: that's what id() does
<radix> kill me
<radix> I read that as an XML entity
%
<glyph> if zone transfers are bind fileformat
<glyph> how much more complicated could this be than FTP? :)
<dash> glyph: Prepare to be surprised.
%
<dash> it's like a bicycle
<dash> but with internet
%
<dash> itamar: ok. well, given that Jesus did rise from the dead, one has to consider what this says about him
<itamar> he was lucky?
%
<moshez> we aren't really a dictatorship
<moshez> we're more like an anarchy, except WE ELIMINATE PEOPLE WE DON'T LIKE
%
<radix> sometimes i eat tums just cuz I like the taste
<glyph> radix: that sounds like a bad idea
<radix> you can never get enough calcium!@
<glyph> radix: if your eyelids ever start sticking to your eyes, or you can't see or hear because a caky, white film has covered your eyes or ears, you may want to consider cutting back on your over-the-counter pharmiceutical intake
<radix> hold up... let me raise the font size.
<radix> Oh.
%
<moshez> nobody resizes my text terminals and lives.
%
<saph> radix: i've eaten nothing but a subway and a weird coconut thing my mom
  made that has a pecan on it and i was kind of afraid of it, but i was also
  very hungry so hunger won out on that one
%
<glyph> the god of unit testing is going to kill me for this code
<Tv> There is no such thing.
<Tv> I would have been dead by lightning for years now.
* liiwi notices the lack of god of code commenting too
%
<queuetue> Are these actual people we're discussing, or another webcomic?
%
<glyph> ono!  I have forgotten the sacred waterfall
%
<icepick> I, as someone who was a professional php programmer, can tell you: Think of the children
%
<PenguinOfDoom> I reject that approach. It has a suspicious lack of internet.
%
<glyph> itamar: uh, I *am* twistedmatrix.com
%
<PenguinOfDoom> CA is definitely like life;
<PenguinOfDoom> When is says "bonus", it means "you are buried"
%
<itamar> i don't understand how COM works
<MoonFallen> me neither
<MoonFallen> i suspect it doesn't
%
<lgonze> ok, name a security flaw in browsers.
<raph> "bugtraq browser" returns about 37,100 hits on google
<raph> sorry i don't have the patience to sift through them all
%
<Yosomono> He's really a reasonable person, if you read his writing.
<Yosomono> I mean, aside from the "lizards run the world" thing.
%
<glyph> AND NOW FOR A MESSAGE FROM OUR SPONSOR
<glyph> Are you WEIRD?
<glyph> Are you MADE OF INTERNET?
<glyph> Use Twisted!  Or die.  http://www.twistedmatrix.com/
%
<MoonFallen> i know. but i've read too many horror stories. glyph gets run over
by a truck, his source code gets acquired from his estate by microsoft, evil
ensues
%
<radix> bah screw it
* radix fakes it
<glyph> radix: hooray for faking
%
<jml> will you take me, to build and to dist, in windows and in unix, till uninstall do we part?
<jml> If any man here objects, let him speak now or ... "error: command 'cl.exe' failed: No such file or directory"
%
<dash> moshez: why's that better?
<moshez> dash: um, because it doesn't necessitate Elijah
<moshez> so it's more portable
<jml> re-use for fun and prophet
%
<cow_2001> btw, for me python is love from first sight..
<exarkun> and as with real love, it will fade after you copulate with it
%
<itamar> just because he was dating a 16 year old that one time he was
         supposed to be doing a release...
<gvanrossum> too much info, okay?
%
<itamar> liiwi: europe has no business
<itamar> thus it can't make business mistakes
<itamar> bunch of socialists living in caves banging rocks together
%
<liiwi> why not illegalize guns while they're at it?
<chrchr> liiwi: Because they're Republicans. They love guns. It's _ideas_ they hate!
<liiwi> let's start using shotguns to route packets
%
<radix> I love killing everything with the sword
%
<porridge> does python have an equivalent of C ternary "?:" operator?
<Erwin> Python has the sextary operator, !@#$^&. Given expression x, each of the 6 operands of the sextary operator is evaluated depending on whether the expression is logically true, false, morally right or wrong or neither of those
%
<exarkun> if you're lucky it causes segfaults
<exarkun> if you're unlucky it signals the Mothership that Earth is ripe for invasion and brings about the destruction of all mankind
%
<chrchr> fariseo: If PHP is like stabbing your eye sockets with a screwdriver, Python is like not stabbing your eye sockets with a screw driver.
%
<saph> i don't know. i've smoked more than my fair share of pot in my day and i've never shot anyone or raped or been raped by anyone
<saph> the most i'd do is make some really fucking cool paintings
<saph> that and played the best scrabble game of my life
<saph> but that was under the influence of both pot and alcohol
<radix> "floopy! it's a word! I swear it!"
%
<sjj> radix: I could smoke a pound of crack and still pronounce "nuclear" better than G.W.B
%
<saph> sjj: president is a minimum age of 35 (which i think is complete bs)
<saph> i know people who are 28 who could run the country better than bushy
<sjj> saph: I could argue I know people 5 years old who could run it better than bush.
* warner knows magic 8-balls which could etc..
<saph> sjj: a ficus plant could do better
<dash> warner: that's why i'm voting for Inanimate Carbon Rod!
<jml> In Rod We Trust
%
<sjj> moshez: I somewhat see what you meant about Gimli being the target of _lots_ of jokes in TT
<sjj> moshez: it got a bit old after a while :\
<Tv> Yes, the jokes fell a little.. short.
%
<Pahan> Comfort me, please.
<fzZzy> no
%
<spiv> 11am - 6pm.  For *five* whole days.  And that's just one game!  It's brilliant.
<glyph> it's like the chanukah of professional sports!
%
* warner has done too much work with intermittent test failures
<warner> my worst nightmares involve the alarm clock only ringing on mornings after I fall asleep on minutes ending in an even number
%
<Artimage> Says it will take 15 minutes
<Tschechow> 15 _apple_ minutes.
<Artimage> Actually, its already down to 4.
<Tschechow> oh, you got hardware with an apple-minute-rate <1?
%
<exarkun> it probably doesn't even belong in the evil directory
<dash> exarkun: why, do you have a "stupid/"?
%
<exarkun> bring on the dancing monkeys
<Tenshihan> radix?
<exarkun> That works
%
<moshez> jml: but euphemisms for sex are common in all languages :)
<exarkun> moshez: what about lojban?
<jml> exarkun: there's no record of any lojban speakers having sex. :)
%
<jml> If I were a girl, I'd fall in love with a bloke who wrote copious amounts of documentation.
%
<MoonFallen> i just signed up for a trial of o'reilly's safari thing, and noticed they had a "voodoo" topic category
<MoonFallen> the first three books are about .NET
<MoonFallen> i always had a feeling there was goat blood and zombies involved
%
<moshez> Debian: If It's Free, Insecure and Crap, We have It.
%
<jml> moshez: did you know that the average vegetarian walks around with 2 kgs
of anti-establishment bile in their stomach? :)
%
<moshez> glyph: in the future, browsers will support google://blah blah :)
<glyph> moshez: in the future, telepathic russians will rule the earth, and computers will be made of synthetic cheese!
<moshez> glyph: before that
%
<faassen> I mean, do they say, okay, so bush looks like a born again christian with a faint hold on sanity but he's really a secular humanist and that's *good* or that's *worse*?
<dash> faassen: he's a secular humanist with a faint hold on the english language
%
<glyph> I'm an un-american anti-semitic american jew!  I love this country.
%
<hypatia> I'm not part of the American way because they don't let you own those kind of weapons around here :)
%
<Pahan> dash uses windows?
<Tenshihan> his grandparents do -- so he's got some windows in his blood
<Tenshihan> it's like being a quarter jewish
%
<dash> lament: well. inductive folds are pretty much the same thing as
__get__ in python combined with the appropriate metaclass 
%
<jml> hmmm
<jml> Let me put it this way.
<jml> When I read 'Brave New World' I imagined most of it to be in a place very much like Canberra.
%
<spiv> hypatia: I have seen snow!
<hypatia> spiv: When? You mistook frost for snow one time :)
%
<dash> see, in my day, we didn't have those fancy init scripts
<dash> just zeroes and ones
<dash> and we used upstream bandwidth both ways
%
<Marvin--> well, yes, we know that /. is broken, but do you mean in some
           particular way?
%
<jml> Argh!! what's happening to me. I'm melting..
* Jerub hands jml a pamphlet : "So you've started to devolve into a primordial ooze".
%
<moshez> dash: well, I lent my crystal ball to itamar
<moshez> because his broke.
<moshez> and then he broke mine.
<moshez> evil itamar.
<itamar> I did not break your balls!
%
<Kengur> dash: r u familiar with the Nebula Device? 
<dash> Kengur: you.... *might* say that, yes 
<Erwin> Kengur: that's the self-destruction device Kirk threatens to blow up?
<dash> Erwin: Kirk's was before the invention of C++, though 
<dash> Erwin: so they couldn't really imagine the horrificness
%
<dash> sourceforge's CVS server is secretly dalnet!
%
<moshez> Yosomono: I AM INSANE!!!!!
%
<etrepum> webtastic
%
<liiwi> hrmpf. concurrency issues are nasty
* Tv gives liiwi two forks and invites him to join the table.
 <liiwi> Tv: can I bring my leatherman?
<Tv> Well, only if you give up one fork.
<Tv> We need to have the same number of tools and eaters.
<Tv> Otherwise it's quite unfair :)
%
<moshez> the common definitions say that after a person rises from his grave, he is the undead.
<dash> moshez: Buffy definitions are not common definitions.
<moshez> dash: Buffy could kick your ass.
%
<ameoba> EVERYBODY GET STONED!!!
<dash> ameoba: furthermore
<dash> ameoba: everybody MUST get stoned
<ameoba> YAY EQUALITY
%
<z3D> dash: yup ... remember the word 'enterprise' ?
<dash> z3D: YES! it is one of my favorite words
%
<chrchr> datazone: jwz didn't invent "If the only tool you have is a hammer . . ." any more than the French invented tongue kissing.
<datazone> chrchr: my grandpa invented french kissing
<datazone> and i will be damned if i sit here and listen to you say that he didnt
%
<exarkun> '''The MODE command is a dual-purpose command in IRC.  It allows both usernames and channels to have their mode changed.  The rationale for this choice is that one day nicknames will be obsolete'''
<dash> yeah, and the marxist state will wither away
%
* radix is a monkey with a bamboo stick
* Kengur tries to trade banana for a bamboo stick
<radix> hah!
* radix beats kengur on the head and steals his banana.
<radix> You don't need trade when you've got a bamboo stick.
%
<lament> Software Engineering is basically a set of techniques for making bad programmers write good code.
<dash> lament: Which is why it doesn't work.
%
<Yosomono> ameoba: my hand made me sleep on the couch :P
%
<tansaku> mathematics is so about sex
%
<chrchr> Spalding Grey made the point that comedians (and comic artists!) might spend a long time building up to the punchline at the end of the joke, while a good storyteller can have the audience laughing throughout the story.
<chrchr> Discuss.
<exarkun> Spalding Grey is a monkey in red suspenders.
<chrchr> exarkun: Excellent point.
<chrchr> Everyone, how does exarkun's point about Spalding Grey being a monkey in red suspenders make you feel?
%
<kiko> is it just me or is the term "software design" too vague to shake a stick at?
<exarkun> kiko: get a bigger stick
%
<jml> dash: is quoting pokey like mentioning the holocaust on usenet?
<dash> jml: nope
<dash> jml: quoting pokey is recommended practice
<jml> dash: but, it makes retort impossible.
<dash> jml: you're beginning to understand
%
<radix> HORRIBLE JAVASCRIPT ARGh
<moshez> radix: when a teenage suicidal brooding girl builds a web site, what do you expect?
%
<itamar> glyph: spyce.sf.net
<glyph> GYAH
<glyph> yes, I've seen this before
<glyph> I believe it was looking at this page that I coined the phrase "captain Dimwit McStupid"
%
<fatjim> quotemaster: i know a guy on gimpnet who wrote his entire website in bash
<fatjim> quotemaster: then he wrote an ircbot in bash
<fatjim> quotemaster: then his head exploded and we had to burn the entire building to prevent an epidemic
%
<dash> Iä, const char* fhtagn
%
<radix> When I take PCP, I pretend that I'm half-leprechaun-half-cheetah
<dash> "You feel jumpy."
%
<Acapnotic> Are there sound effects that accompany the speaking of "Debian Project Leader"?  Trumpet fanfare or choir of angles or the hushed whispering of the cabal or something?
<_moshez> Acapnotic: the Empire music from Star Wars
<_moshez> dam dam dam dadadam dadadam
%
<psy> good thing my 15yo sister also smokes rollies =P
%
<dash> i used to think ms creighton was just insane, but i'm reminded of a .sig on the parrot list
<dash> "the difference betweeen insanity and genius is measured by success"
%
<sjj> itamar: you'll be sorry when the VIC is mainstream! you'll all be out of jobs HAHA
%
<Logan> You might as well ban dancing next!
<Yosomono> Logan: We don't allow that sort of reckless behaviour here.
<Yosomono> Logan: It leads to fraternization amongs youngsters, and eventually PREMARITAL SEX
%
<Logan> chrchr: Are you saying this channel is boring?
<Logan> I think I saw something funny in here once.
%
<glyph> oh.  where is saph?
<exarkun> she got a job
<glyph> Hooray!
<exarkun> It's a mixed blessing
<glyph> What's in the mix?
<exarkun> I get to hear about how I don't have one a lot :P
%
* zookoasleep sleeps furiously.
%
<raph> [WebDAV] probably has all the disadvantages of a stateless protocol combined with the problems of actually implementing state
%
<chrchr> If I had dignity, I'd have to start wearing pants to work.
%
<amybah> THE REVOLUTION WILL BE TELEVISIED (to drm compliant devices)
%
<dash> "we wisssssh to sssquissssh, my preciousss"
%
<itamar> glyph freaked out my grandmother
%
<dash> [From the GPL FAQ:] "If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program" 
<dash> the days of "one process == one program" are coming to an end, i believe
<SamB> o/` Python is a totally different way of thinking, which doesn't have much to do with linking o/`
%
<glyph> moshez, you are only allowed to be excited about one insipid american cultural icon at a time
<moshez> glyph: have you not realized that at heart, I'm an american teenage girl :)
%
<moshez> I prefer the ones who fully embrace, knowingly and publically, the commercialization
<moshez> than the ones who commercialize by being "non-commercial" (Eminem is the prime example here)
<Aco> whatever... i just like girls in white panties
%
<lstep> It's not my fault, my wife keeps connecting under false identities to monitor me!
%
<wzZzy> I tried to use woven.guard sunday night
<hazmat> and?
<wzZzy> hazmat: glyph's powers of obfuscation are considerable
%
<icepick> to the batlaptop!
%
<moshez> radix: oh, and did I tell you I'm officially a sock puppet now?
%
<wzZzy> what's up mjs
<mjs> wzZzy: nothing much, just got home from school... yourself?
<wzZzy> mjs: workin'
<mjs> that's what you are always doing. =)
<wzZzy> that's cause I have a job
%
<raph> but if you are going to combine a scoring system with eigenvectors, it's a lot easier to think about linear things than funky bayesian formulae
<wmf> eigenbloggers are useful, too
* raph prepares to eigensmack wmf
<raph> prepare to compute the eigenvalue of _this_, fool
%
<exarkun> nethack should be made illegal
<exarkun> it corrupts the minds of otherwise upstanding young men
<dash> exarkun: dont make it illegal 'til after i get this fellow into gehennom
%
<glyph> I am getting my design on.
<glyph> (For those of you not already in the aisles, this means: RUN!!!!)
<glyph> I _really_ like this one
<glyph> it may not be appropriate for the main site, but we're going to have to use it someplace
%
<glyph> radix: Your credulity is not a requirement for precipitation!
%
<shapr> no one wants to play with my monads :-(
%
<ThreeSeas> what is melatonin?
<ThreeSeas> is that like another programming language?
%
<gus> doesn't the phonetic representation (Zo["o]l.) mean that it should be pronounced "Zoul"?
<glyph> I don't know...
<glyph> I can't read phonetic.
<gus> and all this time I thought you were phonecian.
%
<exarkun> Oh.  The infamous "Windows sucks" bug.
%
<datazone> you know, america has alot of different military orginazations
<radix> yes, maybe they'll get into a war
%
<radix> i want to make sweet love to twisted.python.components
<ameoba> radix : it probably wouldn't be hard to whip up an adapter +)
%
<jml> _moshez: having dates would be kinda cool.
<itamar> jml: if you take a shower every day, you'll find it's a lot more
         likely
%
<trawa_@ircnet> im trying to get started with web services, but i need
       some software - i think i read all of ibm's articles on that, read
       about 4suite - does anyone know of sth litghter, smaller in size and
       easier to absorb?
<dash> trawa: hmm. what do you mean by "get started with web services"? :)
<trawa_@ircnet> well im trying to port my html application to flash mx
       but dont fell like using cold fusion..
%
<exarkun> What powers the orbital lasers
<exarkun> I always assumed it was the Sun, but now I don't think that would work too well
<exarkun> Unless we are anticipating zero resistance after the destruction of the Sun
<exarkun> This sounds like a serious flaw in our plans, then
%
<floam> itamar: think of how the anonymous bathroom fits in with the way our society works
%
<floam> the paper towel represents the customers
%
<dash> perl has EVERYTHING.
<brc> except buffer overflows
%
<wzZzy> we should write an os
<itamar> YES
* itamar starts a sourceforge project
%
<chrchr> There are some dead/preserved carpenter ants in a bag in the mailroom of the building where I live, and a sign that says, "THESE ARE CARPENTER ANTS. BEWARE!!"
<datazone> chrchr: why do they assume ants can read, and if they can read, that they can read english?
%
<sayke> those whom the gods would destroy they first make l33t
%
<shapr> ucking keyoar
%
<drewp> this twisted thing really is a text adventure game
<dash> drewp: What a ridiculous notion.
private message from dash: wuh oh, drewp is on to us
%
* itamar goes to french class
<radix> FRENCH class???
<radix> Don't you mean FREEDOM class?
%
<glyph> my condolances
<itamar> if Thunder- solves it i'll be ok
<itamar> writing a C++ extension to open a fucking find dialog is soooo fun
<glyph> oh
<glyph> I meant "my condolances on failing to stop the war" :)
%
<moshez> glyph: I have an ethical question for you.
<glyph> moshez: my answer, as always, is "kill them all and let god sort them out"
%
<snibri1> i wonder if those boost ppl ever sleep
<jemfinch> snibri1: why?
<AdamV> snibri1: Nightmares from C++ template coding?
%
<Artimage> Amazon wish lists are really a double edged sword.
<Artimage> This guy made me his amazon friend... so I checked out his list...
<Artimage> lots of 'how to make your own porno movies' books... I now know WAY TOO MUCH... but I have no clue who he is.
<Artimage> I would have to know someone at least a week before I'd be interested in knowing this.
%
<treker> pyn ur fuckin hot
<treker> :-Plol
%
<moshez> marz: don't be scared!
<moshez> marz: the squishing is fun
<moshez> ask anyone
<dash> it isn't fun
<dash> it's like a tiny genocide
<moshez> marz: ok, ask anyone except dash
%
<moshez> dash: what is your profession, again?
<dash> moshez: "irc junkie"
<moshez> dash: good money in that, huh?
<dash> moshez: money?
<dash> moshez: now that you mention it
<dash> most of my jobs lately have come from irc
%
[re: porting the rewrite of jelly to Scheme]
<radix> So is it still really mutaty?
<glyph> It's so mutaty you're going to be using 'set' with *two* exclamation points
%
<jml> you ever heard about cosmic conflicts between the forces of order and
 the forces of chaos? Well, Canberra is like Order winning, stomping over the
 frail corpse of chaos, and all spontenaity, surprise and flexibility
 disappearing from the world.
%
<Spec> Damn you pyn. You are now my greatest adversary.
%
<-- Spec has quit ("The bell that controls our lives has released us into the world....woot.")
%
<exarkun> What's a good, low-cost way to notice when a new file exists in a directory?
<SamB> exarkun: open the directory for reading, read to the end, and use select? (crazy!)
%
<coderman> you ever see my callback templates for use with static and member functions?
<coderman> it works nicely, which is a credit to the STL, but it is also so incredibly ugly it makes my head hurt
<coderman> http://cubicmetercrystal.com/alpine/gen_html/base/AppUtils/AppCallback.h.html
<zooko> What the fuck, man?  Why are you memcpying these void*'s?  Where is callbackData_ defined?  What are all these things templated on "class argument Type"??  AAAAiiiigh!
* zooko holds one hand over his eyes and clicks blindly with the mouse in the attempt to hit the "close window" button.
%
* Acapnotic puts on his "in MY day, we had to write our modelines by hand, with nothing more than some loose notes by matt walsh, the back on an envelope, and the blood from our own hands..." pants.
%
<jml> the phrase "unstable reactor" makes me feel a little nervous
%
<etrepum> dance dance hack?
<radix> hack hack revolution
%
<pyn> <widada@ircnet> this is what i see: "<pyn> <radix@fn> Huh?"
<pyn> <princepsd@ircnet> do you want to see somethingelse?
<pyn> <princepsd@ircnet> ;))
<pyn> <princepsd@oftc> or is this to much for you? ;))
<pyn> <princepsd@efnet> the bridge confuses you?
<princepsd> you can't keep track? ;))
%
<exarkun> why would someone mount a swapfile from an NFS mount?
<MoonFallen> exarkun: to bring about an anarchic dystopia
%
<princepsd> marxist witted is a anagram of twistedmatrix
%
<exarkun> z3p: conch is making me sad again
<z3p> exarkun: conch only does ssh, it is not responsible for also making you happy
<exarkun> Oh.  Crud.
%
<bram> it's nice being a cult leader :-)
<bram> now I must get my minions to start giant bonfires in the woods and do ritual dances around them
%
<Yosomono@efnet> glyph: Does it amuse you sometimes to realize you've created an entire genre of coding for people?
<glyph> Yosomono: "sometimes"?  It amuses me constantly.  It's become the central staple of my entire sense of humor, as well as my livelihood.
<glyph> It is easily the most amusing thing in my life.
%
<dash> if python is an orchestra, overloaded operators are "miscellaneous percussion"
%
<radix> Don't be a consumer! Live off the land
<itamar> there are no pants-trees in nyc
%
<fzZzy> what good is planetary consciousness if it can't open an arbitrary socket?
%
<jml> can someone briefly explain componentized in the context of the web registry?
<spiv> jml: You've got an internet cloud, right?  Only, you're reading isometric, so you really want an internet *cube*.
   So, you take your componentised cloud, and ask it for a cube adapter.  Then exigency girl arrives, kicks your ass, and everyone
      is happy.
%
<spiv> As far as I'm concerned, the meat pie is the ultimate unit of currency.
%
<Noen> fear twisted, because its leet
%
<glyph> jml: I PROMISE I really thought popsicle was a good idea at the time.
%
<jml> balsa is crying out to be re-written in Twisted
<jml> 'heal me' 'heal me'
<jml> 'I don't want to be threaded'
<Acapnotic> yeah, lots of mail programs say that
<jml> Acapnotic: It must be very easy to write GUI mail programs that suck
<Acapnotic> it is, but a lot of people have gone above and beyond the
            bare minimal effort required
%
<warner> Activate the Flux Condensor!
<MoonFallen> We can fix it by patching the wireless with a subspace access point!
<itamar> the powerbook's dilithium crystals are not in tune with the mr814 access point
* warner looks through his toolbox for a transdimensional flux agitator
<warner> uh-oh, we've got a level 3 resonance singularity
<MoonFallen> But it'll be risky! We've got to get the harmonics oscillating 
             correctly before Buffy comes on, or we'll be dead in the water.
<warner> Right, you align the warp power conduits while I re-fractalize the 
         positronic emitters. We meet back on the engineering level in 40
         centons.
%
<warner> happy tests, fat buildmaster
<spiv> warner: I can practically hear it yelling "Feed me, warner!" from 
    here ;)
<spiv> Heh.  Now I'm envisaging a "Little Shop of Hackers" with the
    buildmaster as the plant (and the buildslaves for tendrils!), and poor
    warner as Seymour :)
<warner> FEED ME!
<spiv> For some reason, I keep thinking of _moshez as the dentist ;)
%
<exarkun> radix: [dash] *is* a lazy sob
<exarkun> radix: but that doesn't mean he's wrong
%
<itamar> I don't want my name in the windows registry
<itamar> it's probably bad luck
%
<exarkun> it's JAVA, if you didn't want to type FIFTY LINES to do ONE STUPID THING you wouldn't be using it, right?
%
<jml> _moshez: yeah, but that's obviously an imposed patriarchal paradigm
      that's entirely foreign to the implicit metanarritive.
<flax07> not to be ot - but can anyone give some newbie help
%
<freeside> On a scale of One to AWESOME, twisted.web is PRETTY ABSTRACT!!!!
%
<rik> note to self: do not advise people to use a Deferred when in #c.
%
<saph> dash: when you take over the world, can i be in charge of leather and vinyl active wear?
%
<Nafai> w00t w00t w00t w00t!
<Nafai> I don't understand all of the code, but it works!
<Nafai> I guess I should check it in.
%
<moshez> glyph: I don't care about actual people
<moshez> glyph: I care about not screwing up Debian
%
<arno> what are the main things to change going from [bsddb] 3.3 to 4.1?
<icepick> moving around when you open transactions
<arno> sounds like money laundering strategies...
%
<gt3> welcome to the world wide wtf
%
<glyph> warner: you want to port twisted to PyMite?
<warner> now *that* would be entertaining..
<Nafai> ...for various definitions of entertaining
%
<zooko> I don't know if I'll have much time, but my goals are: 1. test_ent.py, 2. ent.py, 3. make znff.py use ent.py, 4. rule the universe
%
<hypatia> moshez: That's OK, you can feature in my diary as "Glyph's bitch".
%
<akrherz> quotacheck  <-- Do I have quota left for more questions :)
<radix> akrherz: Insert $.25
<akrherz> where?  Can I just give my credit card?
<radix> akrherz: That'll do.
<akrherz> wow, the internet is fantastic
%
<glyph> dreid: so you have some free time?
<dreid> glyph: not really but i could always sleep less
%
<jml> any world knowledge-ables about?
<chrchr> jml: YES.
<chrchr> jml: Oh. You mean twisted.world.
<jml> chrchr: yes.
<jml> chrchr: I am not aware of any other.
%
<wumpus> google, froogle, when are they going to start making names that make sense? :P
<wumpus> even the twisted module names make more sense
%
<dash> wumpus: names that make sense are at an end
<dash> wumpus: they have been all trademarked
%
<chrchr> radix: Are you at NASA? Do you see any of the aliens?
<radix> No.
<radix> chrchr: They don't keep the aliens at Goddard, anyway
%
<_moshez> dash: we need to make Twisted into, pardon the comparison, Zope
%
<Holocaine> moshez: I think your bad wrap comes from the fact that all of us
            are far too postmodern for your version of correctness. =)
%
--- itamar has changed the topic to: "We reject kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." -- David Clark
<dash> also, giant robots.
%
<itamar> better not have children anywhere [POWERFUL CORPORATION'S NAME ELIDED -ed] can fly lawyers
<etrepum> hah
<etrepum> they're not that bad
<itamar> that's what they all say
<itamar> and then it's "but I didn't think they take *my* little Joanne!"
%
<dash> fortunately not all people who call themselves christians are bloodthirsty imperialists
%
<glyph> dreid: you want to talk about the web?
<dreid> glyph: yes
<glyph> dreid: I THINK THE WEB IS TERRIBLE
<dreid> well there is always gopher
%
<zoyd> someone help me with using dictclient.py
<zoyd> the dict.org client that is.
<tappintap> zoyd: what are you trying to do.  Start at the beginning, like: I 
            got up today, and I wanted to paint the shed.
%
<dash> there is a particular sense of fatigue that i have come to associate with the aftermath of attempting to troubleshoot windows problems
%
<itamar> oooh
<itamar> Windows Server 2003 CD
<itamar> 180 day evaluation
<glyph> itamar: damn!  that's half as good as the full product
%
<ivan> i can't wait till palladium!
<ivan> cheat-free gaming at last
%
<jml> spiv: some might call it rewriting, I call it "refactoring from zero"
%
<Nafai> I need to find a reason to learn Woven. :)
<exarkun> it will get you laid
* Nafai thinks
<Nafai> I'm not sure I believe you.
%
<jml> if I'm stuck in windows, what's a good browser?
<jml> preferably one that implements the Aquinas protocol so I can get infinite bandwidth with no hardware upgrades
%
<radix> THE REAL WORLD IS JUST LIKE HIGH SCHOOL
<radix> ARAGH
* radix shoots himself.
%
<exarkun> "While working on a web framework late one night, Mr. Preston was sucked into an http vortex and trapped on the internet.  Now he roams from website to website, crying at code embedded in malformed html templates and exploiting cross site scripting bugs."
%
<AdamV> SamB: PHP's basic control structure is the "database timeout error".
%
<tjs> I was telling the guys at work about woven, and they asked me to implement it in php.. I told them, without battering an eyelid, that it was totally impossible.. sometimes you just have to stand up for whats right
%
<tjs> they have xml parsers for php
<dash> I AM NOT EVEN GOING TO THINK ABOUT IT
%
<WuN> my school went on a trip to Queens U last week (like we stayed the week 
      in the dorms and such), and i took java... i learned 3 things that week:
      1) i dont like java 2) lectures suck 3) not having parents is amazing
%
<Yosomono@efnet> chrchr: In MMORPGs, I typically play female characters too. 
                 Mostly because if I'm gonna spend a lot of time looking at
                 this person's ass while they're running around, I wanna see 
                 something decent.
%
<Tv> How does everyone feel about getting all dirty with low-level networking in twisted?
<Tv> I'm thinking ip, udp etc.
<Tv> As in, "here's the full packet".
<itamar> personally, it fills me with an unholy glee
%
<itamar> Tv: there are people who will offer to marry you if you release this
%
<jml> if only I could eat whitespace
%
*** prell (~prell@106.165.8.67.cfl.rr.com) has joined channel #twisted
<prell> glyph: thanks :-)
*** prell (~prell@106.165.8.67.cfl.rr.com) has quit: Client Quit
<liiwi> wow, a drive-by thanking
%
<exarkun> radix: also, I need a crossover cable.
<radix> wth are you using cables for
<radix> cables are gross
<etrepum> because sometimes you want bandwidth
<radix> yeah right!
<etrepum> well you can go play your infocom games and I'll transfer large files
%
On 2003.05.23 18:54, Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
> On Friday, May 23, 2003, at 06:45 PM, Bob Ippolito wrote:
> > The next big thing is to fantasize about nonexistent programming 
> > languages that make good compile and runtime decisions for you.
> 
> Hey wait!  I'm *really good* at that!  Let me tell you about this paper 
> I read on linear objects...

[Later that day, on IRC...]
<radix> dash: dogg! glyph is cutting up
<radix> dash: latest post to t-p
<dash> radix: Yeah, i know he hates me and wants me to die
<dash> radix: why, what's new?
%
<dash> cfork: if all you have are nails, there's no need to pick up the
       biggest hammer with the poison-ivy oil on the handle every time
%
<zooko> I once had a party in Amsterdam, and there were two live webcams, and I was worried that people would
<zooko> accidentally do something on camera that they didn't intend to.
<zooko> So I spent a long time making great big signs, hard to miss even if you are fucked up, saying
<zooko> "THERE IS A WEB CAM IN THIS ROOM" and stuff like that.
<zooko> As soon as the party started some people pushed the cam aside and started doing lines of coke on the desktop.
%
<chrchr> datazone-work: Some people dominate the world because they can't hold down a regular job and like the flexible hours that world domination offers.
%
<fzZzy> dang. when there are so many layers of abstraction you don't understand it's tough to do a minimal test :(
<fzZzy> and when glyph writes no docstrings
<fzZzy> now I know how people feel trying to use woven
%
<Tv> Enough rope to shoot a foot in your mouth.
<_moshez> enough mixed metaphors to grab a bull by its horns?
<Tv> Enough mixed metaphors to grab a bull and eat it, too.
%
<glyph> jml: world needs help
<spiv> glyph: Sound like you need to put an ad out for a superhero
<glyph> spiv: all too true
<glyph> world.save()
%
<moshez> the breasts are part of the cognitive dissonance
%
<glyph> So, how do I tell distutils to compile/link with g++ rather than gcc?
<spiv> glyph: By typing your commands IN BLOOD
%
<cehteh> >>> foo()
<cehteh> Segmentation fault
<cehteh> doh
<whitestar> cehteh: sucks to be foo()!
<deltab> I pity the foo()
%
<itamar> ambivalent?
<gus> kinda
%
<radix> how many people are we going to get posting to the list "How do I do X? I can't use <perfect solution>, it doesn't fit my design" today?
%
<sjj> spiv: where does your family live?
<spiv> sjj: Singleton.
%
<limi> I need some sex to adjust my sleeping patterns
<limi> the only thing that *really* works ;)
%
<sjj> dash: you certainly are an enigma wrapped in a riddle wrapped in a hat.
%
<cyli> actually I signed on because i was curious to see what people thought about the stem cell debate
<radix> cyli: I'm with Dream Theater on that one
<glyph> radix: You believe that the decision on the debate should involve a melodic but very complex 10-minute sample montage?
<radix> glyph: Hell yes
%
<Alea> Just spent the last 6 months writing const-ridden C++ code...
<radix> I've *never* had to copy a data structure before returning in any of my code
<radix> Alea: We're a more, ahh, free-thinking bunch. Like hippies, you know?
* radix passes some pot to Alea
%
<dash> glyph: i don't see anything else you'd want to use '' for
<glyph> dash: a user named ''
<dash> glyph: is there a good reason to allow users named that? :)
<jml> : of course not
%
<itamar> stupid useless gods
%
<moshez> glyph: but I'd recommend giving him a ban
<moshez> it's like chops
<moshez> except better
%
<Jerub> Why do people punish themselves with latex?
<anthony> Jerub: well, you see... oh. you mean LaTeX.
%
<cyli> maybe you can help me w/ more of woven's dynamic stuff?
<cyli> you said it was really cool and you could do all sorts of weird things with it
<cyli> does that involve lots of javascript?
<glyph> yes
<glyph> as well as blood of a Polynesian virgin 
<cyli> i thought the blood of a germanic princess
<glyph> germanic princess is OK for static pages
%
<pr0le> I find that when i get sex regularly, i tend to be more productive as a programmer.
<pr0le> conversely, when i don't get it regularly, i am more productive as a musician.
<MoonFallen> pr0le: i'm not a musician. i guess that makes my priorities very clear.
%
<allexpro> why does twisted want to destroy the sun?
<MFen> give it a gimmick in the overcrowded python network framework market?
<MFen> you know, those feature checkboxes on those comparison pages. [x] tcp  [x] udp  [x] asynchronous  [x] destroyed the sun
<MFen> and on the right it would be like competitor ------ [x] tcp  [x] udp  [x] asynchronous  [ ] destroyed the sun
%
<abram> Anyone up for answering a Deferred question?
<dash> abram: ask your question now, get an answer later!
%
<glyph> the answer, of course, is "fuck Windows"
%
On 2003.06.25 05:36, Moshe Zadka wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2003, "W.J." wrote:
> > I really hope twisted is not going to enforce this.
>
> Twisted is not about enforcement. Twisted is about mocking people who are
> using the technology in non-optimal ways. 
%
<saph> dash: moshe rules!
<dash> saph: maybe!
<dash> but he'll have to fight me first
<saph> dash: it has to be a clean fight, no stilts, no hats
%
<Rumor> dash: What is this, the spanish inquisition?
<dash> rumor: This is me asking you to think.
%
<itamar> lets change the subject
<glyph> itamar: Okay, let's talk about your inadequacies instead
%
<tic> horray! twisted is working!
<tic> now let's see if that IRC client thingy is working as well.
<glyph> tic: QUICK SHUT IT DOWN BEFORE I ROOT YOUR COMPUTER
<tic> glyph, NO PLAES DONNT!
%
<itamar> I'm half jewish!
<itamar> the other half is also jewish though
%
* rt tries to think back to his college courses.  "Elementary Carnivorous Dinosaur Avoidance 101" sticks out as a particularly useful class.
<chrchr> rt: I think you might be dating yourself.
%
<hefzibah> peaceniks never make up their minds - never date one.
%
<lament> Slashdot karma, unfortunately, is not real karma, because it doesn't involve the death of the people who have it
%
<glyph> spiv: FIX FTP
<spiv> glyph: I'm a little pissed atm... don't encourage me to write code :)
<sjj> spiv: pissed as in angry or pissed as in australian?
%
<Riastradh> Syntax causes cancer of the semicolon.
<radix> syntax rules
<Riastradh> syntax-rules rules.
%
<glyph> radix: PEACE AND LOVE!!!
<radix> why
%
<chrchr> What's the word for a potion that makes people horny? I
         forget the word. Wild mead is supposed to do that.
<Erwin> alcohol
%
<glyph> LordVan: I don't know why people keep using twisted for all this serious stuff.  It's a mud with a mailserver.
%
<glyph> For example - if you came in here asking "how do I use a jackhammer" we might ask "why do you need to use a jackhammer"
<glyph> If the answer to the latter question is "to knock my grandmother's head off to let out the evil spirits that gave her cancer", then maybe the problem is actually unrelated to jackhammers
%
<Pahan> exarkun: Are you a brain surgeon?
<exarkun> Pahan: I know where your brain is, and I've used a knife before, if that's what you mean.
%
<moshez> nobomb: the rumours that we mutilated and killed people who badmouthed Twisted are completely unsubstantiated
<exarkun> but please stay out of the garage
%
<nobomb> since i learnt netscape started in a garage...i've yet to enter one
<nobomb> something like that must be spawned from fornication carrion beasts
<moshez> and what do the carrion beats feed on?
<moshez> I can't tell you what they don't feed on!
<nobomb> the limbs of mutilated twisted naysayers
<moshez> and that's bodies of people we killed for badmouthing Twisted
<nobomb> why not
<moshez> because there aren't any!
<nobomb> lies
%
<hypatia> I don't think charmed is so applicable there?
<moshez> I don't think the Charmed ones got their powers a little later
<moshez> on the bad part, spiv would die :(
<hypatia> That's the price you pay for superpowers.
<hypatia> Nobody gets superpowers and happiness.
<hypatia> Sorry spiv -- I'm trading up!
%
<glyph> what the hell am I going to do with a dozen donuts?
<dash> make 11 new friends
%
<moshez> itamar: I mean, it's fun that I can trace ancestry pretty much to the people who invented flamewars, 3k years ago
<itamar> moshez: this would explain a lot about you, yes
%
<glyph> dizzyd: yeah, microdom.py vs. sux.py :)
<radix> deathmatch!
<glyph> radix: sux would totally whup microdom's ass
<glyph> radix: it would be all scary dressed up in leather and chains and shit
<glyph> and microdom would have a little bow tie
%
<phed> glyph: If I take care of some children, and I tell somebody else, "I just let them do whatever they want"...
<phed> glyph: then people like you say "what if they KILL somebody! Shriek!".
<glyph> phed: they actually say that?  they say "shriek"?
<phed> Shriek is the matingcall of people I hate
<glyph> norway is a weird place
%
<dash> soon copyright will be dead
<dash> and bookmobiles will roam the streets of america freely
%
<moshez> jml: I AM A STANDARD
%
<dizzyd> dude, life is good once you get the hang of this framework
<dizzyd> my code just drizzles into modularity
%
<dash> First they [the dev. team for Evolution: Worlds, a console game]
       break mimesis, then they break the first rule of RPGs!
<glyph> what is the first rule of RPGs?
<dash> schizophrenic kleptomania
%
<itamar> ow ow ow my head
<fzZzy> gently down the stream
<dash> merrily merrily merrily
<fzZzy> itamar is in pain
<itamar> I am going to kill you all
%
<moshez> I want to use ed
<moshez> but ed has flaws :(
<dash> i would venture to say that ed is composed entirely of flaws
%
<moshez> spiv: I cry wolf all the time, but that's because 
         WE'RE SURROUNDED BY WOLFS!
%
<itamar> I must work
%
<dash> ooh, i have an idea
<dash> clone noam chomsky and hire the clones as greeters at wal-mart
<itamar> I've never been to a walmart
<itamar> how does that work?
<dash> itamar: it is a big room full of stuff
<glyph> dash: "Hello, you bourgeois military-industrial pig!  Would you like
        some coupons?"
%
<MFen> irc is sort of a window into the schizophrenic part of the
       brain, i think.
* Nafai tries to smash the window
%
<dunker> ah so the kqueue reactor doesn't spawn right
<spiv> dunker: Maybe it needs a full moon in spring, like certain types of fish?
%
<jml> watching classic films and reading classic books is worth it, in general, just to appreciate The Simpsons more
%
<lac> my problem is that i have the new cisco wireless card
<lac> and I cannot get it to work
<lac> with my debian linux.  curse it all.
<lac> also running it makes my dishwasher go nuts
%
<BradB> Perl's main appeal is more social than technical. They have fun
    tricking Perl into doing things we don't even have to think about in
    Python.
%
<avida> like with enumerate(), i would go back to al my code and use enumerate ...
<avida> im obsessed that way
<dash> is it rad to be obsessed avida
<avida> dash: its killer radical, indeed
%
<Riastradh> glyph, explain why I'm writing twisted-scheme, then...and
            making it implementation-independant.
<glyph> Riastradh: because you are a WONDERFUL PERSON, even though I
        disagree with you
%
<itamar> why does my 1.8ghz pc take 30 seconds to delete start menu items
<itamar> what is it *doing*
<radix> contacting the mothership by emanating magnetic signals from the movement of the HD heads across the platters.
%
<itamar> oh look, these people are writing a "pragmatic language"! from scratch
<itamar> someone get me some of those drugs
<itamar> I don't enjoy reality any more
%
<Pahan> It looks like a very cool tihng.
<Pahan> But ugh, I hate fragile software.
<radix> Pahan: wtf, you're a l33t C++ hacker.
<radix> Pahan: you should be used to it.
%
<etrepum> worst case you waste 40 bucks, best case it just works.. somewhere in the middle, you learn how to write a kernel driver
%
<moshez> deltab: "write to stderr" is not a logging technology
%
<radix> hooray! death to privatization
%
<fzZzy> css is like putting a bandaid on your SEVERED HEAD
%
<dash> well, we try
<dash> but some of us are more trying than others
%
<tenth> The issue tracker that solves the issue of failing to use the issue
tracker will rule the earth as a living god someday.
%
<Acapnotic> dash: how are the cookies connected to glyph's internet again?
<dash> Acapnotic: wires
%
<MFen> i don't want to look at it.  but someone else should. seriously
<MFen> hard work is not my thing
%
<Erwin> it provides some thin abstractinos around Python objects so
        you don't have to screw around with refcounting, but nothing much
<exarkun> abstractinos!
<exarkun> the elementary particle of abstraction
<exarkun> excite them to high enough energy and they release their
          gluons, resulting in a refactor!
<exarkun> but don't excite them too much, or you'll end up with all
          abstraction and no implementation!
%
<radix> my misfortune is that Broken Sword crashing in the same spot
<radix> every time i try to play through it
<radix> whyyy
<radix> my computer sucks
<dash> radix: yeah, this is why i don't buy games that say "broken" on the box
%
<Ron> I'm beginning to suspect that statically linking is a bad idea?
<exarkun> Not if you own a lot of shares of Maxtor or Seagate
%
<moshez> IInsanity(moshez).squish(IHandsHaving(radix))
%
<radix> what the heck are you talking about
<MFen> cyberhigh
<Nafai> MFen: Is that a drug like snow crash?
<MFen> almost exactly like that, but without the ninja motorcycle chase
%
* moshez is insane toad
<moshez> today
<moshez> damnit
%
<tjs> at least C++ is comparitivly sane
<tjs> my day job is php
<exarkun> tjs: uh
<exarkun> tjs: oh
%
<exarkun> btw I hate imap
%
<etrepum> python should come with a disclaimer
<etrepum> that says you may not want to use anything else ever again
%
<MFen> want to write my requirements for me?
<radix> Sure!
<radix> "show a dancing monkey in the about box"
%
<dash> foom: at one level, i'd just say "screw that, let people share objects if they're foolish enough to try"
<foom> yes, that's called "threading"
<foom> and everyone is foolish enough to try
%
<moshez> I miss the hype!!
%
"from experience and months of lurking, I would say the Twisted newbie
experience is characterised by waves of confusion and euphoria."
  -- Douglas Bagnall
%
<sjj> one day you will understand how it is I came to be the sole
      owner of this lemonade
<warner> you killed all the other kids at the lemonade stand, didn't you
<sjj> hah hah haaah, free enterprise!
%
<moshez> exarkun: I will tell saph to uncynicalize you
<itamar> with a SHOTGUN
<itamar> the cynicism will leak out the holes
%
<chrchr> SamB: pirate is an implementation of Python for the Parrot VM.
<exarkun> Argh, matey.
%
<radix> i like porn
<itamar> that's not womanizing
<itamar> that's objectification, closely related to OBJECTIVISM
<radix> i like it a lot
%
<sjj> so i'm trying to keep glyph out of jail and / or financial ruin
%
<dash> "some guy in blue sunglasses killed the last guy who worked here. We think he was from the future."
<glyph> dash: my sunglasses are mirrored grey, actually
<dash> glyph: the ones you have NOW, you mean
%
<MFen> anything that makes glyph go OH SHIT makes me want to buy garlic and silver bullets and get a lawyer
<MFen> the silver bullets are in case it's a werewolf, the lawyer is in case it's a lawsuit and the garlic is to protect me from the lawyer
%
<fzZzy> Yay! Advertising: Internal Server Error
<fzZzy> my favorite kind of advertising
%
<glyph> well, well, well.
<glyph> it worked.
<glyph> My desk is in the correct position.
<glyph> My internet is on.
<dash> glyph: GENERATE REVENUE
%
<exarkun> rt: we could do with an out of control suicide rate
<rt> unless you're willing to lead the way, I wouldn't go making that
     recommendation.
<exarkun> rt: I would, but if I hurl people off a cliff, it's murder, not 
          suicide.
%
<itamar> why isn't my mac shipping :(
<MFen> they ran out of candy canes and gumdrops
%
<raph> of course, from a mathematical point of view, "working" and "IMAP" are probably incompatible concepts
%
<moshez> dance dance EVIL revolution
<moshez> this is a game I will invent
<moshez> it's like DDR
<moshez> except on HEADS
<moshez> hahahaah evil
%
<ivan> why the *fuck* do we have 2.4ghz devices everywhere when water resonates at 2.4ghz and we're 90% water?
<ivan> is this a conspiracy theory to kill us all?
<exarkun> yes, ivan.
<exarkun> very clever.
<exarkun> you've found them out.
<exarkun> you realize you've killed us all, I hope?
%
<Acapnotic> I have a problem with edonkey though, and that is that I get hypnotized by the many parallel download meters
<Acapnotic> one time I spent three days without eating, sleeping, or coding, just looking at the little progress meters and watching clients connect and disconnect and whatnot
%
<saph_w> dash: how are you?
<dash> saph_w: better than i deserve
%
<dash> time to get my abstracti on
%
<radix> PHP doesn't have interfaces, it has REIFIED PAIN
%
<itamar> if I ever write a novel
<itamar> the chapters will start with quotes from the quotefile
%
<exarkun> my knowledge is exceeded only by good looks and success with the ladies
<dash> exarkun: easy to believe
<dash> they wouldn't have far to go
%
<headh> where python stores its modules?
<exarkun> internet
<exarkun> the modules roam free in the valley of IP
<exarkun> just beyond the IANA peaks and the black chasm of the IETF
%
<lament> Listening to your heart? Pfft
<lament> it's boring
<lament> thud thud, thud thud
<lament> and it's always the same beat
<lament> it's not like it goes boom -kachink-chakachaka-boom!
%
<hypatia> Oh well, as long as they aren't rapping in Andunaic...
<dash> hypatia: actually
<dash> hypatia: that would be kinda cool.
<hypatia> dash: Impressive too, considering how small the known vocabulary is.
<hypatia> Quenya or Sindarin would be doable.
<hypatia> As long as you like rapping primarily about flowers, natural beauty and grief.
%
<slyphon> what is Andunaic?
<dash> slyphon: Adnaic is the language of Numenor.
<slyphon> dash: is that in south-east-asia?
%
<hypatia> The Noldor don't strike me as a very goth people, but, you know, maybe they've gotten with the times.
<moshez> hypatia: like vampires, elves don't change
<hypatia> moshez: They fade though. That's pretty goth.
%
<exarkun> "packaged" doesn't mean easy to install or configure
<exarkun> it means "comes in a pretty box carried by a guy in a $800 suit"
%
<glyph> I agree that it would be huge amounts of fun to watch monkeys in $800 suits carrying big shiny boxes that say Twisted do a complicated ballet to the tune of "Money, Money, Money", so if you want to fund it, please send me the video tape
%
<parks> ill take ASN.1 over XML any day
<dash> parks: why?
<parks> blind bigoted hatred
%
<itamar> exarkun: does it do screenshots of empty landscapes?
<itamar> if not it is NOT BEGUN
%
<dash> exarkun: radix is ruined for life i guess
<radix> no!
<radix> i will experience WONDROUS JOY for the rest of my life
<exarkun> radix: of course you will
<exarkun> you're only ruined from the perspective of sane people
%
<moshez> fuckin' jew
<slyphon> moshez: i think they like to be called 'the messiah-challenged' these days
%
<cherub> yay Unspeakable Algebra
<cherub> I assume the geometry associated with all of this involves strange many-dimensional paralleltopes which are an affront to reason, and through the corners of which unknowable evil seeps into our plane of existance
%
<fzZzy> hmm. what happens if an interface inherits from another interface, and I try to adapt an object which declares it implements the subclass to the base class interface?
<Jerub> the spacetime continuum will shatter, leaving only remnants of the previous inheritance tree to forge out an existance in the rubble of a former great civilisation.
%
<glyph> moshez: Your interpretation of the human condition is, as always, colorful and, as always, wrong :)
%
<moshez> glyph: I'm always polite
%
<z3p> what is a good way to debug crazy errors in C modules?
<Jerub> z3p: find -name "*.c" -exec rm {} \;
%
<Jerub> extremists make middle ground exist.
<glyph> Jerub: sometimes they salt the earth as they pass over the middle ground ;-)
%
<gt3> i took a 2 month coding vacation and went soul searching
<gt3> i collected a lot of souls..
<dash> gt3: cool. what are you going to do with them?
<gt3> sell em on ebay
%
<dash> whoa
<dash> the mexican-flag thingy works like the editors at BYTE used to!
%
<radix> "promgrenades"?!
<radix> that sounds like some terrorist weapon that a high schooler thought up
%
<chrchr> see man mount. see spot run.
<slyphon> chrchr: as long as we don't see "man mount spot"
%
<radix> exarkun: I am skeptical.
<exarkun> radix: Go skeptate elsewhere!
<exarkun> radix: You're harshing my buzz.
%
<PenguinOfDoom> And the app sucks.
<exarkun> what do I care if the app sucks!
<PenguinOfDoom> Running sucky apps diminishes honor of your mother.
%
<teratorn> everything tastes better with a little internet
%
<slyphon> do you know what guido said about why python didn't have an optimizing native code compiler?
<radix> he said "i like meatloaf"
%
<fzZzy> why is the king in yellow paperback 20 bucks :(
<glyph> fzZzy: I *seriously* hope you mean "The Yellow Sign" or something
<glyph> fzZzy: if you found an actual copy of The King in Yellow, DON'T TALK ABOUT IT HERE
%
<radix> haha! fear my bamboo stick
<radix> thwap! swip! donk!
<itamar> donk?
<radix> itamar: yeah. stabbing in the forehead with a bamboo stick makes that sound.
%
<dash> exarkun: CULTURAL OSMOSIS
<Glammie> Perhaps the expression has percolated throughout a variety of social media without retaining the tag of its orig
<Glammie> dash, jesus christ..  I just typed a whole sentence, and you say the same damn thing in 2 words.  Damn you for your conciseness!
<dash> Glammie: PERSPICACITY WOO
%
<glyph> fzZzy: It always starts with one harmless little branch tag, and pretty soon, you've got a revision in each hand, and you're snorting crushed revisions off the ass of a 12 year old boy you call "revision"
%
<MFen> i swear to god c programmers must do #include <buffer_overflow.h>
* MFen upgrades his servers. again.  hooray debian
<exarkun> MFen: yes!  except it's spelled <string.h>
<exarkun> i think it's short for "... long embarassing string of security vulnerabilities ..."
%
<saph_w> i think buildbot should be renamed vlad
<saph_w> and be given scripts to talk about makeout sessions it's had
%
<exarkun> all twisted has in the way of ipv6 support is Twisted/sandbox/exarkun/ipv6.py
<exarkun> Which someone should rewrite as an internet newapp service and drop in a more useful location
<glyph> exarkun: hum
<glyph> exarkun: I suppose we should take our lead from DNS
<glyph> exarkun: and add a function to the reactor called
<glyph> listenTCPTCPTCPTCP
%
<moshez> we can program in morse code
<dash> moshez: will you release it under an Open Morse license?!@
%
<mesozoic> fzZzy: uh... when you click "Read Next Message", and the entire things refreshes using JavaScript instead of simply opening another page, I think you're adding unneeded layers of complexity.
<fzZzy> mesozoic: that's awesome!
%
<mesozoic> fzZzy: it was the way the whole thing tied together. It was like GOTO graduated and became a design methodism for web applications.
<fzZzy> there is no design methodology for web applications! that's the best part
%
<tenbytes> fag
<dash> this channel is made of LOVE AND PEACE!!
<tenbytes> oh
%
<glyph> dash: Well, I'll give you a hint.  A certain UNIX vendor is going cross-country with an advertising campaign, and warner says he hasn't "been physically ejected from a conference in ages"
  -- warner and glyph plan a visit to a SCO Q&A session
%
<MFen> huh.  microsoft has a license _compiler_
<MFen> i guess you need special tools to inject a program with pure evil
%
<blanu> The waste sub-project was/is going to be IRC over Chord basically.
<arma> will it be "invisible"? will it have a "2" in the name?
<blanu> Doubtful.
<blanu> It will probably be rolled in crispy crust of crack though.
%
<blanu> I figure if you're going to write a new chat system, you might as well be mostly insane about it.
<blanu> Since it's doomed anyway.
<arma> will it be deniable, at least?
<blanu> No, I plan to take full responsibility for writing it even if it's silly. After all I wrote IRC over Freenet.
%
<glyph> I want PB to be a service to rival HTTP, which means that it needs to be able to *do something* when you just type "pb.blahblah.com" and then slather enough drool on the enter key to depress it
%
* slyphon has a roomate (best friend from high school) that is going for a degree in being a lazy no-job having mooch
<slyphon> but in a loveable way
%
<nazca> can anyone think of a good method of pursuding my college network admin that installing python and twisted on to the application server would be a Good Idea (tm)
<radix> nazca: well, why do you need it? :)
<nazca> i need it for working on software projects that eat more time than the college course ;) i'm not telling them that or they'll give me more work
%
<saph> YES I AM A FEMALE
<saph> FEAR MY BOOBIE POWER
%
<grib> don't worry, I have a pentagram around my Aeron
%
--> orangecat has joined #twisted
<orangecat> I was just on my way to the bar to pick up some internet
    and wondered if everyone had enough enterprise.  No facilitated
    client-based XML quality vector refills? Budweiser?
<-- orangecat has left #twisted
%
<etrepum> what are we plotting?
<dash> etrepum: world domination
%
<raph> imagine how many fewer problems we'd have if everybody on the planet was an asynchronous network protocol programmer
<clausen> raph: I think everyone would starve :p
%